“Deticated to Miena and Rami.”
The first sin in the history of humanity started by the desire of man to be equal to god. So he decided to eat from the fruit of knowledge not for the sake of knowledge but to be equal to god, and here started the longest stroy of conflicts between humans. And then Adam got into a conflict with Eve, Kaeen killed his brother Habeel and the story went on….Do we really still try to be Gods? I think yes we do. Everyone of us are always trying to put god in limited list of laws and judgements. Because the god we are trying to be is limited, while the almighty god is not limited. We are always trying to put rules for god to work on. But we always forget that god is above rules, he is not even limited by the holy laws, becasue he is the one who placed it and so he is the one who is over it.
You should be saying “Tony got crazy.” what is the relation between trying to understand gods way of judgement and ruling and our desire to be equal to god. I’ll till you what the is relation, when we develop all these rules giving answers to questions that have been always confusing the world about salvation, what is after death…what we are simply doing is that we are trying to put the alighty god with his unlimited love, absolute justice and generous mercy in our minds. We are trying to be gods. Out of lose in our faith in his Mercy and Justice, we try to find rules to justify our questions and worries that was originally born out of our lake of faith.
And the crisis really starts when we have already developed the complete figure about what is god going to do with every single human in this earth during his life and in the coming life. Now we are gods and we cannot listen to other gods, but we work on teaching the other gods the rules of our god. And we all together cannot allow the almighty god to do something out of the rules that we had developed for him to work on.
Let us try to have the faith in god’s justice, mercy and love. Because our faith proves to the whole world that God is justiful, merciful and love, but our rules will prove nothing to the world but will tell our god is limited.
I hope that any of you could get a point of what I’m saying.
I agree and disagree with u, Tony.
Yea, a god resides inside everyone of us. That’s why everyone has his own desires and dreams (small and big ones) that he works hard to make it true even by step on others’ or his own live. We always forget that we are limited, very weak, hopeless by ourselves. We always neglect the fact of death and that every moment we life is countable and can’t be back.
Here, I disagree. If we think that God above rules even his own rules then there’s no rules. However, God is limited by rules that’s why he can’t force the salvation for all the nation. Don’t u think he wanted to do this? He can’t, he can’t overcome the rules for his own desires or ours.
Our image of Almighty God isn’t correct (in my opinion). This isn’t athesim or heresy. It’s a way to understand our role (not rule) and his role in the world. He need us and we need him, neither of us can do anything alone. If we as humans understand our roles and God’s role in the world, I think we can bring peace for our world. We should stop asking God to do things to us like miracles, we should understand that our interventions are essential for making miracles (which will not be miracles at that time).
I wish I have been clear enough, coz it’s a kind of complicated idea. If you u understand this, u’ll understand my previous posting on my site.
Comment by ikhnaton2 — January 24, 2006 @ January 24, 2006 8:08 am
Hi Rami, I nearly agree with most of what you said but I just want to explain more what does the sentence “But we always forget that god is above rules.” means. Let’s premise that there is father who promised his children that whoever finishes his homework will get a reward of 10 LE. Who placed the rule here is the father and remember the rule is not based on competitive notion, it is based on a gift or reward offered by the father. And at last the one of the children done it and got the rewards, and may be even that the father has raised his reward. And then the other child who couldn’t complete the homework, but for a reason we don’t know, which the father knows he decided to reward this child too. I’ve no authourity or right to ask the father and tell him that he failed his rule, no he didn’t fail it. If I was the one who done the homework, then I got the reward according to the rule and it is not my issue what the father did with the other son. All my issue is about to help the other son doing his homework as long as I can.
I just want to add here that this example is just a hypothesis and not based on any kind of idea that I want to support, what I’m trying to support here that my business is mine and God’s business is his. I may ask god to give something to somebody else, but if with my limited eyes I couldn’t see that he gave it to him, I should niether judge that he gave it to him nor that he didn’t. I hope this was clearer, not more vague.
Comment by Antonius Armanious — January 24, 2006 @ January 24, 2006 2:28 pm
Tony:
Really, this topic is just awesome!!
both your argument and rami’s are great..
I will try to reply sometime later today ( it is 6:20am here)
Comment by miena — January 24, 2006 @ January 24, 2006 3:24 pm